Technical Infrastructure
I just reread chapter 3 of the "Producing OpenSource Software" book. In that the author lists some technical infrastructure points every oss project need. Since I think that we should reduce the number of log-ins to a minimum we should rethink the list. In Karl Fogel's opinion we need (my point of view in brackets):
* a mailing list for discussion (IMHO we don't need this for day-to-day subprojcet related issues - we have pp and this forum for overall discussion - but we might need a mailing list for announcements/newsletters ... The SimpleMail module should do this task
* a version control system (we should use one for development @souceforge. I don't have enough experience to give a recommondation for cvs or svn, both are available. Just use one and let's stick with it - Karl Fogel's recommondation is SVN).
* a bug tracker (there is the "project module" which will be used by Drupal itself. There we can customize our steps/prios and a bug reporter just have to log-in at the drupal site)
* a Wiki (+++ for documentation. @Ryan did you have experience with the Drupal-like implementation? There is a install profile and I tried a pre-version of it (and screwed my local installation). Looking at http://drupal.org/project/drupal_wiki and the test site @test.tschannen.net (currently offline) this seems to me a good thing without installing a new sw) * IRC (do we need this?)
* a web site (sic!) As far as I can see we can reduce the number of accounts for a non-developer to a single Drupal account (and a pp account if we have a pp project). For coders we should use all available Drupal functionality and only the version control stuff @SF.
What do you think?
Roland
PS: The book is a free download at www.producingoss.com (CC licensed)
I'd say we don't need IRC, I think it's kind of an outdated way to communicate. Given our time zone differences, live chat is probably not practical. If needed, we should probably use something that doesn't require a server, like one of the many free instant message programs.
I agree
Not really sure if I should post here :/
I wouldn't say IRC is needed for your team chat, but quite a lot of Open source teams use freenode to host IRC channels to provide public support for their programs (have a look at #phpbb and #wordpress on chat.freenode.net)
For team talk, IM and Skype are apparently very good.
About wikis, Drupal has a book module which is pretty much the same as a wiki as far as I know.
I would encourage creating an IRC channel. While it may not get used for development purposes, it is helpful for building the community. It provides an informal and personal communication medium that you don't get with forums or mailing lists.
It's a good way to get new contributors and is an extra support channel (at worst you can just link to the forums). There's really nothing to lose. Just have irssi in a screen session on a server always staying connected to irc.freenodenet in #projectpier (for example).
Agreed, its not outdated, its useful for those who use it (if people use it heh). There isn't a way to replace it easily, any chat based in instant messengers are much more pain than irc.
You say you need a sever, but you dont need to host a server, Freenode, for example, is an IRC network that hosts lots of opensource related channels. Check more about freenode in http://freenode.net and/or wikipedia. So hosting a server is not a concern.
hth
Druid
I have no problems setting up an IRC channel as long as I know there are enough people to justify spending the effort getting it setup. I would like to see 20-25 people express their interest in having it available before I will set it up - otherwise I feel it will mostly be an empty channel 99% of the time which I think looks worse than not having one at all. Currently our forums are not exactly swamped with people, and I frequently have contact with people directly via email or some IM's, so I'm not totally convinced with need this (yet). So, I'll take druid and miknight as +2 so far
For the two minutes it takes to set up an IRC channel on freenode, in fact anyone here can do it themselves and start using it, ##projectpier, it seems a little harsh to ask for 25 people to want to use it. What if only ten highly skilled people want it...or even 5? 5 is better than none and I do believe that any help is better than no help.
Anyway, +3.
People aren't going to jump straight into the IRc channel straight away -
If you get a few good ground people in, and publicise the fact that you'll offer live supoprt via the channel, then people are bound to go to it.
As tutmeister said, it takes virtually no time at all to register the channel on freenode, and if nothing else, would allow you to make sure that the channel is kept for the project.
+4 :)
Alex
It is not about the time or effort required to setup the channel - its just a decision to maintain another resource for the project. I just don't like the idea of creating a channel and then having nobody actually there most of the time. As you mentioned - if we publicize that we have live support on this channel, that's great. But if people go there and see no one there to help, it kind of defeats the purpose and I think looks a bit bad. My only reason for asking for support on this issue is I want to know that you guys will be inside that room. I figure if 20 or so people say "yes, i like it" then maybe half of those might actually help out in the room at some points and probably half of those might actually be regulars in the room - which would be about 5 people which would hopefully cover multiple time zones since this is a global project.
20 people is really quite a lot. The #civicrm channel hovers around 15 people and it's a far larger project. It's a very cheap resource to maintain and I think it would be more a case of 'build it and they will come'.
I'm not asking for 20 people to be in the room all the time - I'm just asking for 20 people to express their support for the channel. As I said above, out of that 20 people, I'm hoping that will probably only return about about 5 regular visitors or 1-2 people on average actually being in the channel.
Also, maybe its just a principle thing, getting 20 people to support an idea seems like it should be a pretty low barrier for an international project.
I bet if you summed up all the time you have used up debating this issue, you could have quite easily set up an IRC room, plugged it on the site, and gotten some feedback on how well it worked out.
Sometimes you've just got to live and learn.
Good point ;)
I personally autojoin #phpbb on freenode, when I logon to IRC, so it wouldn't be much of a problem to join #projectpier too.
There are currently two people in #projectpier which I guess is a start ;) .
Hey Guys,
#projectpier should be up and running. Hope this means the flood gates will let loose now :)
I will be sure to auto join that channel, too.
Sam Rose
http://socialsynergyweb.com/services
http://blog.socialsynergyweb.com